Exclusivity - Check, Help and Questions

The sci-fi Universal Skirmish System

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Sirrob01
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Exclusivity - Check, Help and Questions

Postby Sirrob01 » Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:34 am

So my star wars clone army list is done, probably...need to get a couple of things checked around exclusivity and standard units. I've been trying to work around/work out this rule....

First questions
Can I define a standard unit that must be fielded as a Hero, by forcing a Hero the minimum unit size becomes 1 hence I could create a standard unit of:
Jedi Envoy
0-2 Jedi Knights (Must be Hero's)
0-2 Jedi Padawan (Must be Hero's)

Figure since you can have 1 having 0 must also be a legal choice since then it breaks no rules as it doesn't exist. If this is not legal can you point at the why not :)

Second Question
Can I specify a Vehicle unit that mix's frames? It's exclusive anyways for being vehicle can I mix other vehicles in:

Light Cavalry Support Unit
2-6 BARC Speeders
2-4 AT-PT's

If this is valid would this mean this unit is only assigned 1 initiative card ie if I fielded 2 of each would they all move on the same initiative card?

Can you specify "1" vehicle in a standard unit or must it be a minimum of 2?

Third Question
This ones a bit hairier. If the above is correct doesn't this make Commanders much more powerful as they could negate this initiative card penalty you might have by letting you lob an extra initiative card back into the initiative deck. I know at the moment Commanders for points spent seem a little redundant (especially if you already have fluidity). I'm assuming this would mean you'd probably pay and want both a primary and secondary commander.

Fourth Question
Assuming two is valid wouldn't you need to be careful to make up some vehicular/troop units which mix and match an odd assortment of units for different PV sized battles, sort of like:

Light Scout group (1000pv)
2-6 BARC Speeders
2-4 AT-PT's
1 Jedi Commander Hero

Attack Group (2000pv)
4-9 Clone ARC trooper
2-8 BARC Speeders
2-6 AT-PT's
2 Republic Troop Transports
1 Jedi Commander Hero

Assault Attack Group (4000pv)
4-9 Clone ARC trooper
4-9 Clone ARC trooper
2-10 BARC Speeders
2-8 AT-PT's
2-4 Republic Troop Transports
2 TX-130 Tanks
2 AT-AP
1 Jedi Commander Hero


So allowing you to field a wide variety of vehicles (size 3 infantry) for bigger sized battles, although your losing tactical advantage due to lose of initiative cards.

The clone army has a low adhoc unit limit of 25% but can field 50% vehicles, it can be hard to field 50% vehicles when the vehicles are all exclusive and the only way I can see around it is to bundle them into different standard unit groups. Especially when you get upto higher PV battles, so i'm hoping I've bent the rules right ;) .

Thanks for any thoughts and answers

smokingwreckage
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Re: Exclusivity - Check, Help and Questions

Postby smokingwreckage » Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:52 pm

1. I don't see why not.
2. I assume so and make frequent use of this when writing up armies.
3. I think that's the idea of commanders, yeah.
4. Again, I do that. I hope it's legal.
5. Oh wait, you've mixed troops with vehicles. You can't do that as they have different morale. You can mix and match anything with the same morale in a unit but you can't mix morale.

You didn't actually ask this, but you might consider Jedi as Elites rather than individual heroes. Then you can field and activate them as a squad but they each get to choose their actions and targets individually.
-Sam

Sirrob01
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Re: Exclusivity - Check, Help and Questions

Postby Sirrob01 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:23 am

Opps, forgot about the not mixing quality types, that makes it slightly harder but I can still field 25% adhoc as size 3 Infantry or something else.

Trying about 2000 points
Stand unit (E)- light cavalry: 3 of each BARC and AT-PT for about 540 points
Stand Unit - Clones Troopers about 400points
Stand Unit - Clone Troopers about 400 points
Stand Unit - Jet Clone Trooper about 400 points
Ad hoc - Jedi Commander hero about 300 points

I'd get a total of 5 initiative cards + 1 command card and the equipment/troop spread seems reasonable

Trying a large 4000 points
Stand Unit (E) - Cavalry Support - 3 of each BARC/AT-PT, 2 Republic Troop Trans - 950
Stand Unit - Clones Troopers about 400 points
Stand Unit - Clone Troopers about 400 points
Stand Unit - Clone Troopers about 400 points
Stand Unit - Jet Clone Trooper about 400 points
Stand Unit - Jet Clone Trooper about 400 points
Ad hoc - Jedi Commander hero about 300 points
Ad hoc - TX 130 tank about + Republic Troop transport - 750points

8 Initiative cards + 1 Command card and almost 50% vehicles, although the adhoc is just over 25%

I might be better of switching the adhoc and vehicle %, to add versatility back into the army although you do lose the ability to use command cards on them...annoying. Exclusivity seems to be a tough rule to work around, saying that though it does force you to make sure your army is made up of a fair % of regular soldiers. It doesn't break down as badly as I thought it would at larger force sizes as long as you make some standard units that mix up vehicle types.

Sam do you know if I can specify 1 vehicle in standard unit? this would make them a little more versatile. (Re-checking the rules 2 does seem to be the minimum)

edit:
just had a thought(slow brain) as a vehicles minimum unit size is 2 if I did have:
Light Cavalry Support Unit
2-6 BARC Speeders
2-4 AT-PT's

To meet the 2 vehicles in a unit rule I could have 1 of each? I think this is what you were driving at Sam and it makes sense. So ti would be:
Light Cavalry Support Unit
1-6 BARC Speeders
1-4 AT-PT's

What happens if I have 4 options? Could I specify them as from 0-X number? since you could field 0 of 1 frame type and 2 of another (I could do that in the above unit in theory)?
Assault Cav Unit
0-6 BARC Speeders
0-4 AT-PT's
0-4 Troop trans
0-2 TX-130's
0-2 AT-AP's

that opens up a world of options.... :D

smokingwreckage
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Re: Exclusivity - Check, Help and Questions

Postby smokingwreckage » Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:15 pm

I think..... think that you can have "0" as the minimum quantity of a frame in a mixed-frames squad, but I'm not at all sure. All the official lists have a minimum quantity "1" of the frames in mixed-frame squads, but the squad design rules don't mention it.

Still, you can have 15 standard squads. I would always have APCs as a standard squad - yes, minimum unit size is 2. It's not hard even assuming you can't have "0-2" or "0-6" to still have a selection of vehicle squads that cover what you see as the most versatile and common deployments.
-Sam

smokingwreckage
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Re: Exclusivity - Check, Help and Questions

Postby smokingwreckage » Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:20 pm

Oh, to be used as the army commander and be able to assign his command anywhere, a commander must be bought as part of a standard squad. I believe he can move and act independently of that squad once in-game. I don't especially see why a lone hero Jedi couldn't be a standard unit though, so if you've done that my point is moot.
-Sam

Sirrob01
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Re: Exclusivity - Check, Help and Questions

Postby Sirrob01 » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:01 am

unfortunately the Jedi are DC2 size3 SI, so they are going to need to be fielded adhoc almost every time...of course the nasty ranged force powers I gave them help a lot :). If he's a commander I thought he could be fielded solo even from the beginning of the game (p19 last paragraph on the page), am I reading that right?

Yes I did the same flicking through the standard lists and checking those but the ones in the book tend to only have 1-2 vehicle options total. The star marines run the other way with 75% adhoc and don't really list any exclusive vehicle units, the other lists just seem to approach vechiles as 1 type per unit or specify 1X, 2Y's, 1Z.

Checking some of the other infantry combo units it does seem to specify were 2 are listed a split so that the minimum purchasable is for example 4 with a mix of both units and then the total of both if purchased at max = total unit size for army. But I couldn't find an example of 3-4 mixed frame unit...

I went back and double checked in case the rules said "Type" not "Quality" but it's definitely quality, I''m also at a bit of lose on how to interpret the rule further, the above would appear valid, so long as I never fielded less than 2 frames or 9 frames max from the options available for the unit.

This would then seem to be fairly flexible and these are my vehicle units so far..although if 0 is a valid choice the last one is all I ever need:

Clone Trooper Light Attack Group (Exclusive)
0-9 BARC Speeders
0-9 AT-PTs

Clone Trooper Fast Attack Group (Exclusive)
0-9 BARC Speeders
0-9 Republic Troop Transports

Clone Trooper Attack Group (Exclusive)
0-9 BARC Speeders
0-9 AT-PTs
0-9 Republic Troop Transports

Clone Trooper Heavy Attack Group(Exclusive)
0-9 BARC Speeders
0-9 AT-PTs
0-9 Republic Troop Transports
0-9 TX-130 Saber-Class Fighter Tanks

Clone Trooper Assault Attack Group(Exclusive)
0-9 BARC Speeders
0-9 AT-PTs
0-9 Republic Troop Transports
0-9 TX-130 Saber-Class Fighter Tanks
0-9 AT-APs

Even if the above isn't legal it should be an easy matter to add in some fixed numbers for each one. Hopefully Demian might drop by and provide some guidance on this issue. :ugeek:


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