Ironclad Armada-Free Source book

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murtalianconfederacy
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Re: Ironclad Armada-Free Source book

Postby murtalianconfederacy » Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:12 am

Sorry, this whole 'not having the internet at home' is a real killer...:)

Thanks for the Medina complement--I had designed it with 2 Marines, but its a simple fix.

The Iris/Mercury cruisers had two refits, which is a pain to figure out their arcs for, but seeing as it was probably easier to put guns on the upper deck than insert guns through the hull in a sponson arrangement, I'm thinking of sticking to the arrangement I had--as it had 10 guns in sponsons as built, then a first refit where some guns were replaced by 6" BL, then a second refit where she had 13 6". Not least because once I got home I knocked all four designs out in half an hour--once I've got the stats, I work fast...:)

Yeah, I've got slightly more on the Vixen than you, I believe, seeing as I have a side-on pic...:) I decided that was the most likely arcs for her, and unless anyone has real info on her I think no-one will mind...

The only stats I have for the Medina are stating a battery of three 64pr, with two of them firing forward from an oval gunwale, with no info on the third one. The author (Archibald, in a book from the early 1980s) makes note of the fact that she was a most unusual-looking vessel, mainly because of a weight-distribution problem that precluded the two forward guns being placed right forward in the hull. Your picture does seem to indicate two guns, however...

I'll write up my conversions ASAP.
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murtalianconfederacy
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Re: Ironclad Armada-Free Source book

Postby murtalianconfederacy » Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:35 am

Just had a look at this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat-iron_gunboat and it mentions in the UK section that "A development of the flat-iron concept resulted in the Medina class, an iron coastal gunboat fitted with three masts and carrying three 6-inch 64-pounder rifled muzzle-loading guns. The naval historian Anthony Preston described them as "the most grotesque craft ever seen".[10]"

So, with that in mind, I'm going to stick with the 3-gunned Medina I designed--was worried that my source might be incorrect again...:)
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murtalianconfederacy
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Re: Ironclad Armada-Free Source book

Postby murtalianconfederacy » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:01 am

Iris class (2 in class) (British dispatch cruiser) (103) (1877)
Hull: 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
Engines [TL 1]: 9 8 7 6 4 3 2
Faceted [TL 1]: 10 9 8 6 5 3 2
Facets: 1/2/2/2/2/1
Weapon Hit Chart: [2V] [2V] [2V] [V] [V] [V]
Weaponry [TL 1]:
Battery V: Medium Rifle [AC] [AC] [BD] [BD] [CE] [CE] [DF] [DF] [HJ] [IK]
Special [TL 1]: 13 Marines

Notes: 391 SUs remaining. As mentioned, I think the original armament would have been placed along the hull in the ten sponsons I noted. However, I am happy to change the design if evidence to support a different opinion is presented (mainly because I like designing ships...:D)

Vixen class (3 in class) (British armoured gunboat) (51) (1866)
Hull: 4 3 2 1
Engines [TL 1]: 4 3 2 1
Faceted [TL 1]: 16 12 8 4
Facets: 2/3/3/3/3/2
Weapon Hit Chart: [V] [V] [V] [W] [W] [W]
Weaponry [TL 0]:
Battery V: Heavy Rifle [HJ] [IK]
Battery W: Light Rifle [AB] [EF]
Special [TL 0]: 4 Marines

Notes: 254 SUs remaining. This design, like the Medina, was a hard one to nail down, particularly because of those gun arcs.

Medina class (also named the River class) (12 in class) (British gunboat) (27) (1876-7)
Hull: 2 1
Engines [TL 1]: 4 2
Shields [TL 1]: 1 1
Weapon Hit Chart: [2V] [2V] [2V] [V] [V] [V]
Weaponry [TL 1]:
Battery V: Medium Rifle [AC] [BD] [EF]
Special [TL 1]: 3 Marines, Countermeasures

Notes: 131 SUs remaining. Yet again, a hard one to design. I went with the above arcs because I thought they made sense. If more evidence shows up supporting a two-gun version with the arcs as depicted in bekosh's plan view, here is the simple conversion. Remove one of the rifles, switch the arcs to a ABCD/JKL or GHI/CDEF arc as necessary, and alter the weapon hit chart to [V] [V] [V] [V] [V] [V]. No change in CRat. I gave the class Countermeasures as they were very low freeboard.

Ant class (contains the six Gadfly vessels commonly grouped in with the Ant class) (British coastal gunboat) (20) (1876-7)
Hull: 2 1
Engines [TL 1]: 4 2
Shields [TL 1]: 1 1
Weapon Hit Chart: [V] [V] [V] [--] [--] [--]
Weaponry [TL 1]:
Battery V: UH Rifle [G]
Special [TL 1]: 1 Marine, Countermeasures.

Notes: 143 SUs remaining. This was the easiest conversion of the four, as the gun was quite visible on the side view, and it's very unlikely a heavy gun could be given any real measure of traverse in a 254t vessel. Countermeasures were added as it was very low freeboard. I initially had information that the Ant only had 24 crew, not 30. If anyone wants the higher crew level and the extra marine, the CRat will increase to 22.

And here they are, as promised.
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murtalianconfederacy
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Re: Ironclad Armada-Free Source book

Postby murtalianconfederacy » Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:34 pm

Just thought you'd like to know, I've started work on a space setting inspired by this and loosely based on the period 1840-1900, with some early 20th century stuff like aircraft (very loosely based, as it's in space and all :D). Couple of issues, though--trying to figure out how to model SoL-type vessels alongside carriers and pre-dreadnoughts without completely nerfing one side of the equation or other, and secondly how much of the flavour of the inspiration to keep--do I go all-out and have just one/two 'gun' weapons, plus torpedoes and maybe a form of rocket, or do I only nod at that and go for laser, particle, plasma weapons etc? Its early stages yet, so its not too far advanced.
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bekosh
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Re: Ironclad Armada-Free Source book

Postby bekosh » Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:29 pm

I spent some time going through my copy of Brassy's Annual 1887 and decided to make the following changes to the ships. See the attached pdf file for details.

Errata 4-25-11
USS Casco class torpedo boat should have Spar Torpedo and no Ram.

HMS Alexandra-Increased the facets to 26 (3/5/5/5/5/3)

HMS Termeraire-Increased the facets to 26 (3/5/5/5/5/3)
Corrected Ultra Heavy Rifle Arcs for barbette mounts.
Increased hull size to 12.

HMS Belleisle-Increased facets to 26 (3/5/5/5/5/3)

HMS Superb-Increased facets to 26 (3/5/5/5/5/3)
Increased hull size to 14.

HMS Sultan-Revised firing arcs.

HMS Hercules-Revised firing arcs and increased armor & hull size.

French Colbert-Revised firing arcs

French Ocean-Revised firing arcs

French Redoutable-Revised firing arcs.

German SMS Konig-Revised Wilhelm firing arcs

German SMS Sachsen-Revised firing arcs

Chilean Almirante Cochrane-Revised firing arcs

Greek Basileos Georgios-Revised firing arcs

Greek Basilissa Olga-Revised firing arcs.

Japanese Kongo-Revised firing arcs.

Spanish Sugunto-Revised firing arcs and speed.
Attachments
Ironclad Armada-Errata42511.pdf
(14.1 KiB) Downloaded 247 times
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hdan
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Re: Ironclad Armada-Free Source book

Postby hdan » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:15 pm

Sorry for the necromancy, but I wanted to thank bekosh for creating this source book.
I've been casually interested in doing some ironclad stuff for quite a while, and using Starmada makes me very happy.

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Re: Ironclad Armada-Free Source book

Postby BeowulfJB » Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:05 am

This looks awesome! If I ever get into playing Ironclad ships, I will use this system. :geek:
Darn the Fusion Torpedoes; full speed ahead!
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murtalianconfederacy
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Re: Ironclad Armada-Free Source book

Postby murtalianconfederacy » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:25 am

So, two years afterwards, and I stumbled across another book about ships, which I decided to get because it had some info about a Dutch ironclad warship known as HNLMS Buffel, which was an ironclad turret ship. After trawling through Wikipedia, I've got some additional vessels that, if I have the time, I might try to convert...
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murtalianconfederacy
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Re: Ironclad Armada-Free Source book

Postby murtalianconfederacy » Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:15 am

Here's my research and initial conversion notes. Unfortunately, most of this has just a single source (the weight of the Buffel, for example, which I have in the book but was not on Wikipedia)

Here are the notes I gathered from Wikipedia (cleared up citation and edit tags)

HNLMS Buffel is a 19th-century iron-clad ram ship, now one of the main attractions of the Maritime Museum Rotterdam, also known as the Prince Hendrik Museum, named after its founder, Prince Henry (Hendrik) "the Navigator", who had a naval career and established the basis of the museum back in 1874.

Built in 1868 by Robert Napier & Sons in Glasgow, Scotland, HNLMS Buffel was the first ship of the Royal Netherlands Navy without sails but with a steam engine and two propellers, that gave her a maximum speed of almost 13 knots (24 km/h). Her radius of action at 6 knots was about 2,150 nautical miles (4,000 km). Her main task as an armor-clad ram ship was to play a role in the Dutch coastal defense together with two sister ships and two so-called monitor ships.

Her armament was first of all the ram on her bow, mainly against wooden ships, and originally two 300 pound (136 kg), 23 cm Armstrong guns, with a total weight of 25 metric tons, in one turret. These were later replaced by a single 28 cm gun, and the armament was enhanced by a couple of smaller guns; 2 of 7.5 cm, 4 of 3.7 cm, and two Hotchkiss Revolving Cannons.

The crew consisted of 150 men, officers, petty-officers, and sailors.

Launched: 1868
Decommissioned: 1973
In service: 1868
Out of service: 1894
Fate: Museum Ship (1974 - Present)

General characteristics

Speed: 13 knots (24 km/h)
Range: 2,150 nautical miles (4,000 km) @ 6 knots (11 km/h)
Complement: 150 men, officers, petty-officers, and sailors
Armament: Ram; Two 300 pound (136 kg), 23 cm Armstrong guns later replaced with a single 28 cm gun, and two 7.5 cm guns, four 3.7 cm guns, and two Hotchkiss Revolving Cannons.


HNLMS Koning der Nederlanden (Dutch: Zr.Ms. Koning der Nederlanden) was an iron-hulled ironclad turret ship built for the Royal Netherlands Navy in the early 1870s. She was the largest ship to serve in the Dutch Navy during the 19th century. The ship was converted to a barracks ship in the late 1890s and stationed in Surabaya in the Dutch East Indies. Koning der Nederlanden was scuttled in Surabaya on 2 March 1942, during the Battle of Java, to prevent her capture by the Japanese.

HNLMS Koning der Nederlanden was the largest ship built for the Dutch Navy during the 19th century. She was fitted with a ram that protruded 1.22 meters (4 ft 0 in) from the bow. The ship's gun turrets were only 3.3 meters (10 ft 10 in) above the waterline, but the freeboard could be increased by use of hinged bulwarks. The turrets were rotated by hydraulic machinery.

The ship had an length between perpendiculars of 268 feet 4 inches (81.8 m), a beam of 49 feet 10 inches (15.2 m), and a draught of 19 feet 3 inches (5.87 m). She displaced 5,400 tonnes (5,300 long tons). Her crew consisted of 256 officers and men.

Propulsion

Koning der Nederlanden had two compound steam engines, built by Penn and Sons, each driving a single 4.876-meter (16.0 ft) propeller. The engines were powered by seven boilers. The engines produced a total of 4,630 indicated horsepower (3,450 kW) which gave the ship a maximum speed of 11.95 knots (22.13 km/h; 13.75 mph) during her sea trials that began on 26 July 1877. She carried 620 long tons (630 t) of coal and had three funnels. The ship was barque-rigged with three masts and had a total sail area of 847 square meters (9,120 sq ft).

Armament

The ship mounted a pair of Armstrong 11-inch (279 mm) rifled muzzle-loading guns in each gun turret. Each gun weighed 25.4 long tons (25.8 t). Four 120-millimeter (4.7 in) Krupp breech-loading guns were mounted on the upper deck and six 37-millimeter (1.5 in) Hotchkiss 5-barrel revolving guns were also fitted in the ship's superstructure. They fired a shell weighing about 1.1 lb (0.50 kg) at a muzzle velocity of about 2,000 ft/s (610 m/s) to a range about 3,500 yards (3,200 m). They had a rate of fire of about 30 rounds per minute. The ship was initially armed with spar torpedoes, but they were removed shortly after completion.

Armor

Koning der Nederlanden had a complete waterline belt of wrought iron that was 200 millimeters (7.9 in) thick amidships, but reduced to 150 millimeters (5.9 in) at the bow and stern. Each gun turret, and its base, was protected by 230-millimeter (9.1 in) armor plates, although the total thickness around the gun ports was 305 millimeters (12 in). The deck was unarmored.

Name: Koning der Nederlanden
Namesake: King of the Netherlands
Builder: Rijkswerf, Amsterdam
Laid down: 31 December 1871
Launched: 28 October 1874
Commissioned: 16 February 1877
Decommissioned: 1 April 1895
Reclassified: 1 December 1899 as accommodation and guard ship
Fate: Scuttled 2 March 1942

General characteristics

Type: Ironclad turret ship
Displacement: 5,400 metric tons (5,300 long tons)
Length: 268 ft 4 in (81.8 m) (p/p)
Beam: 49 ft 10 in (15.2 m)
Draught: 19 ft 3 in (5.9 m)
Installed power: 4,630 ihp (3,450 kW)
Propulsion: 2 shafts, 2 Compound steam engines
7 boilers
Sail plan: Barque-rigged
Speed: 12 knots (22 km/h; 14 mph)
Complement: 256
Armament: 2 × 2 - 11-inch (279 mm) muzzle-loading rifles
4 × 1 - 120 mm (5 in) Krupp breech-loading guns
6 × 1 - 37-millimetre (1.5 in) Hotchkiss 5-barreled revolving guns
Armour: Belt: 150–200 mm (6–8 in)
Gun turrets: 230–305 mm (9–12 in)


HNLMS Prins Hendrik der Nederlanden was an ironclad turret ship built in Great Britain for the Royal Netherlands Navy in the mid-1860s. She was transferred to the Dutch East Indies in 1876 and participated in the Dutch intervention in Lombok and Karangasem in 1894. The ship was hulked in 1899 and scrapped in 1925.

HNLMS Prins Hendrik der Nederlanden was ordered from Laird & Son Co. by the Royal Netherlands Navy as an enlarged version of the Scorpion-class ironclad turret ships originally ordered by the Confederate States Navy. The gun turrets was normally rotated by two men via a system of gears; 20 seconds were required for a full 360° rotation if a full crew of 19 men was used. The ship's bow was reinforced to act as a ram and a hurricane deck connected the forecastle and poop decks. For sea passages the ship's freeboard could be increased to 14 feet (4.3 m) by use of hinged bulwarks 5 feet (1.5 m) high.

The ship had an length between perpendiculars of 230 feet (70.1 m), a beam of 44 feet (13.4 m), and a draught of 18 feet 8 inches (5.69 m). She displaced 3,375 tonnes (3,322 long tons). The iron hull was divided by five watertight bulkheads and the ship had a double bottom beneath the engine and boiler rooms. Her crew consisted of 230 officers and men.

Propulsion

Prins Hendrik der Nederlanden had two horizontal return connecting rod compound steam engines, built by Lairds, each driving a single 15-foot-6-inch (4.7 m) propeller. The engines were powered by four square boilers. The engines produced a total of 2,426 indicated horsepower (1,809 kW) which gave the ship a maximum speed of 12.09 knots (22.39 km/h; 13.91 mph) during her sea trials. She carried 380 long tons (390 t) of coal and was barque-rigged with three masts. Her fore and mainmasts were supported by tripods to reduce interference with the firing arcs of the gun turrets by the ship's rigging. Prins Hendrik der Nederlanden had a total sail area of 1,554 square meters (16,730 sq ft).

Armament

The ship mounted a pair of Armstrong 9-inch (229 mm) rifled muzzle-loading guns in each gun turret. Each gun weighed 12.5 long tons (12.7 t). Two 120-millimeter (4.7 in) Krupp breech-loading guns were fitted in the forecastle and another pair in the poop as chase guns. Six 37-millimeter (1.5 in) Hotchkiss 5-barrel revolving guns were added shortly after completion. They fired a shell weighing about 1.1 lb (0.50 kg) at a muzzle velocity of about 2,000 ft/s (610 m/s) to a range about 3,500 yards (3,200 m). They had a rate of fire of about 30 rounds per minute.

Armor

Prins Hendrik der Nederlanden had a complete waterline belt of wrought iron that was 4.5 inches (114 mm) thick. Amidships, for a length of 120 feet (36.6 m), the armor belt had a height of 12 feet (3.7 m) of which 3 feet (0.9 m) below the waterline. At the bow and stern the belt was only 2.5 feet (0.8 m) high above the waterline. 4.5-inch transverse bulkheads were provided to protect the bases of the turrets and the machinery spaces from raking fire. Each turret was protected by 5.5-inch (140 mm) armor plates, although the total thickness around the gun ports was 11 inches (279 mm). The deck was unarmored.

Name: HNLMS Prins Hendrik der Nederlanden
Namesake: Prince Henry of the Netherlands
Laid down: August 1865
Launched: 9 October 1866
Completed: March 1867
Decommissioned: 5 May 1899
Fate: Scrapped after 1905

General characteristics

Type: Ironclad turret ship
Displacement: 3,375 metric tons (3,322 long tons)
Length: 230 ft (70.1 m) (p/p)
Beam: 44 ft (13.4 m)
Draught: 18 ft 8 in (5.7 m)
Installed power: 2,426 ihp (1,809 kW)
Propulsion: 2 shafts, 2 Horizontal return connecting rod compound steam engines
4 square boilers
Sail plan: Barque-rigged
Speed: 12 knots (22 km/h; 14 mph)
Complement: 230
Armament: 2 × 2 - 9-inch (229 mm) muzzle-loading rifles
4 × 1 - 120 mm (5 in) Krupp breech-loading guns
Armour: Belt: 4.5 in (114 mm)
Gun turrets: 5.5–11 in (140–279 mm)
Bulkheads: 4.5 in (114 mm)


HNLMS Schorpioen is a sister ship of HNLMS Buffel. Built in the same year, 1868 in France, they were the core of the then renewed Royal Netherlands Navy, replacing the outdated wooden ships that combined sailing and steam propulsion and carried so called smooth-bore guns. These new ships were equipped with heavy rifled 23 cm guns, and a heavy armor. The hull had an armor plated belt of 15 cm (6 inches) and the gun turret, housing the two guns, had almost 30 cm (12 inches)of armor.

She came from the building yard with two tripod masts and able to employ about 600 m2 of sails, but she proved to be a difficult sailing ship and some years later the yards, masts and the sails were removed. As with the Buffel her huge steam engines gave her a max. speed of 13 knots (24 km/h). Her striking weapon was the pointed ram bow, slightly different than the Buffel's, but she never ever used this overestimated weapon.


The Atjeh class was a class of unprotected cruisers of the Royal Netherlands Navy. The class comprised Atjeh, Tromp, Koningin Emma der Nederlanden, De Ruyter, Van Speyk and Johan Willem Friso.

The ships of the class were 92.05 metres (302 ft 0 in) long, had a beam of 12.497 metres (41 ft 0 in), a draught of 6.706 metres (22 ft 0 in), and had a displacement of 3,425 ton. The ships were equipped with reciprocating engines, which were rated at 3,300 ihp (2,500 kW) and produced a top speed of 14 knots (26 km/h).

Armament

The ships were armed with six 6.7 in (17 cm) guns and eight single 4.7 in (12 cm) guns.

All ships were laid down at the Rijkswerf in Amsterdam and launched between 1876 and 1886.


Name Launched Commissioned Fate

HNLMS Atjeh 1876
HNLMS Tromp 1877
HNLMS Koningin Emma
der Nederlanden 1879 1943 scuttled
HNLMS De Ruyter 1880 1885[2] 1900 sold for scrapping
HNLMS Van Speyk 1882
HNLMS Johan Willem Friso 1886


Name: Atjeh class
Builders: Rijkswerf, Amsterdam
Operators: Royal Netherlands Navy
Completed: 6

General characteristics

Type: Unprotected cruiser
Displacement: 3,425 tons
Length: 93.05 m (305 ft 3 in)
Beam: 12.497 m (41 ft 0 in)
Draught: 6.706 m (22 ft 0 in)
Propulsion: 3,300 hp (2,500 kW)
Speed: 14 knots (26 km/h)
Complement: 306
Armament: 6 × 6.7 in (17 cm) (6 × 1)
8 × 4.7 in (12 cm) (8 × 1)


Here are my initial conversion notes. The information from the book lists the Buffel as having a displacement of 2198 tons. It also states that a sister ship, the Guinea, was completed in Amsterdam "...two years later..."

Conversion Notes:

Koning der Nederlanden (Commissioned 1877)

Hull: 5400tons=Hull 9
Speed: 12kt=Speed 6
Shields: 6-8in=Shields 3
Weapons:
4x11in in 2x2 turrets=4 Ultra-Heavy Rifles in 2x2 turrets, ABCD/CDEF?
4x4.7in in 4 single mounts on upper deck=4 Light/Medium Rifles, arcs not sure
6x1.5in Hotchkiss on superstructure=6 Very Light Rifles or ignore, arcs not sure
Initially fitted with spar torpedoes
Marines: 256=13 Marines

Prins Hendrik der Nederlanden (Completed 1867)

Hull: 3375 tons=Hull 7
Speed: 12kn=Speed 6
Shields: 4.5in=Shields 2
Weapons:
4x9in in 2x2 turrets=4 Very Heavy Rifles in 2x2 turrets, ABCD/CDEF?
4x4.7in in 4 single mounts, two in the forecastle, two in the poop as chase guns=4 Light/Medium Rifles, two AB, two EF?
6x1.5in Hotchkiss=6 Very Light Rifles or ignore, arcs not sure
Marines: 230=12 Marines

Buffel/Schorpioen/Guinea (1868 Buffel, Schorpioen, 1870 Guinea)

Hull: 2198tons=Hull 5
Speed: 13kt=Speed 6
Shields: 6in=Shields 2
Weapons:
Ram
2x300pd/23cm(9in) in 1x2 turret=2 Ultra-Heavy Rifles, ABCD?
Marines: 150=8 Marines

Atjeh class unprotected cruiser (6 in class, although only three launched before 1880) (1876-1885)

Hull: 3425tons=Hull 7
Speed: 14kt=Speed 7
Shields: No armour--unprotected cruiser--Shield 1?
Weapons:
6x6.7in in 6 single mounts=6 Heavy Rifles, arcs not sure, but going by picture estimate that most weapons mounted on broadsides
8x4.7in in 8 single mounts=8 Light/Medium Rifles, arcs not sure, but going by picture estimate that most weapons mounted on broadsides
Marines: 306=15 Marines
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