Shipyard Latest

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Blacklancer99
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Re: Shipyard Latest

Postby Blacklancer99 » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:44 am

Paul, it seems like all of the calculations are working fine, and it is just a matter of blank cells being the issue. I still have OO3 and 2.4 (3 on the mac, 2.4 on the old pc now in the basement) and I can still use that for the shipyard, so it's not really a big deal. Mr Microsoft has already sent out two very large updates to office08(Mac) in the few weeks I have had it so there may be hope yet that it "self-resolves". The ISBLANK function seems unchanged, and I tried to take out pieces of the formula a little at a time to see if the value error would go away with one precedent in particular, but it didn't. At that point I decided not to worry about it. Now I just need to get back to building ships! :)
Cheers,
Erik
Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable.
Mark Twain.

Blacklancer99
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Re: Shipyard Latest

Postby Blacklancer99 » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:39 am

Paul, I was wondering if it would be possible to do something in the shipyard sheet that would allow more "universe specific" customizaation. Namely I was wondering if you could make the VBAM traits "Selectable" instead of based on the VBAM:SE prerequisites. Ideally this would allow a designer to select a trait and a level of that trait and its cost (procurement and maint) would be calculated correctly. I know that this would mean people would be open to abusing the system, and I understand that that is why the prerequisites were established, but I would like the option of creating ships within a set of ground-rules that are consistent, but to not have to use those prereq's. This comes from my efforts to do the ships of 2300ad. If you use the rules from VBAM:SE it is nigh impossible to create ships that represent some of the vessels in that setting, which has smaller vessels for things like explorers and "intruder" scouts and assault ships that don't have the large cargo and troop stowage required for the VBAM calc to kick in. I have done a number of these things by hand, and I feel that when kept consistent within the universe they are not unbalanced. Anyway, I was just wondering if this was possible. Like I said, I'm sure it would open a can of worms for potential abuse, but I was just hoping that I wouldn't have to write my own sheet to do it! ;)
Cheers,
Erik
Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable.
Mark Twain.

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Re: Shipyard Latest

Postby OldnGrey » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:49 pm

It would be possible in a limited way, for Atmospheric, Assault, Explorer, Scout level 1 & 2. Ships created this way could only be used in a specific setting where everyone uses the same construction rules. With regard the Starmada/VBAM conversion a fair bit does depend on having (to pay for) the required equipment.

I take it that the ships you mean are larger than Recon fighters or Assault shuttles.

The basic costs depend on the ship being constructed as a Starmada ship.

Have you tried increasing the tech level for the setting in order to put the equipment on smaller ships?
For Example, a HUll 1 Scout (1) at tech level 5:-
Type: Scout (1), Class, (9)
Hull: 1
Engines: [TL5] 4
Shields: [TL5] 1
Weapons : 1:[X], 2:[X], 3:[X], 4:[X], 5:[X], 6:[X]
Weapons
Battery X: Laser Batteries (E) TL5, 5/10/15, 2/5+/1/1
[AB]
Special Equipment
Hyperdrive ®
Long Range Sensors ® : Electronic Warfare System ® :
Science (100) :
Damage Control Dice: 1

OK very basic, would not last long and not very much bigger than a recon flight.

Oh eck! just realised I did not update the VBAM stats to account for the use of equipment Damage.
Paul

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Re: Shipyard Latest

Postby Blacklancer99 » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:57 pm

OldnGrey wrote:
Oh eck! just realised I did not update the VBAM stats to account for the use of equipment Damage.
Paul


Glad I could be of service! :)

The example you gave is fine, but one thing I want to avoid is playing with the TLs; in the conversion that I am doing bleeding edge tech level (for Humanity) is TL +1, most font line equipment is TL 0, most civvy tech level is -1, and older crap is -2. The other caveat is that I would rather stick to equipment that is from S:AE without falling back to X. In other words, I would like to build a scout that uses Fire Control and Science(x) rather than the LRS, EWS and Science(x) from S:X. I would like to see the Assault trait done, almost more than the others. The ships that I want to do from 2300 just get too large, and therefore tougher than they should be, to make the requirements. This is mostly because the assault ships carry smaller troop/vehicle contingents than VBAM conceptualizes. Most explorers are smallish, like the size of a Frigate, with a few large ones ranging up in size to about a light cruiser. Assault ships tend to be in the heavy cruiser range, although there are a few Battlship sized ones.
The rough size range that I have worked out is something like:
Fighters, landers and small couriers: Hull 1
Covettes, Large couriers and Small Frigates: Hull 2
Frigates, old/small Destroyers/DEs: Hull 3
Destroyers: Hull 4
Light Cruisers: Hull 5-6
Patrol/Heavy Cruisers: Hull 7-9
Battlecruisers, Old/Small Battleships: Hull 10-12
Modern Battleships, Fighter Carriers: Hull 13-15
Dreadnoughts, Fleet Fighter Carriers: Hull 16-18
Anyway, thanks for thinking about it at least!
Cheers,
Erik
Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable.
Mark Twain.

OldnGrey
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Re: Shipyard Latest

Postby OldnGrey » Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:12 pm

When making the change over to AE I tried (Believe me I tried)to keep to AE equipment and Auxiliary Services for VBAM conversion but it just would not work with the reduced options. For example, using Fire Control and Science (X) makes quite a few ships scouts no matter what the size of ship. Or for that matter, even a space station!
That is why I put the minimum equipment types needed back in the tables, just for VBAM conversions.

If (Atmospheric, Assault, Explorer, Scout level 1 & 2 ) will do, send me your email address. I will put a '2300AD trait choice' on the template sheet and send it to you. May not be today though.

The shipyard does get used for VBAM and as you said, it would be open to abusing the system so I will not put it into the version here. You can always share :) .

Paul

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Re: Shipyard Latest

Postby Blacklancer99 » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:11 pm

OldnGrey wrote:When making the change over to AE I tried (Believe me I tried)to keep to AE equipment and Auxiliary Services for VBAM conversion but it just would not work with the reduced options. For example, using Fire Control and Science (X) makes quite a few ships scouts no matter what the size of ship. Or for that matter, even a space station!
That is why I put the minimum equipment types needed back in the tables, just for VBAM conversions.

If (Atmospheric, Assault, Explorer, Scout level 1 & 2 ) will do, send me your email address. I will put a '2300AD trait choice' on the template sheet and send it to you. May not be today though.

The shipyard does get used for VBAM and as you said, it would be open to abusing the system so I will not put it into the version here. You can always share :) .

Paul

Thanks Paul! Can you send it to edplancer at yahoo dot com
I certainly understand the concerns about abuse, so I understand not posting an option like those that I am asking for. I promise that I will only use my powers for good, not evil :D
Cheers,
Erik
Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable.
Mark Twain.

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Re: Shipyard Latest

Postby OldnGrey » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:12 pm

Blacklancer99 wrote:Thanks Paul! Can you send it to edplancer at yahoo dot com
I certainly understand the concerns about abuse, so I understand not posting an option like those that I am asking for. I promise that I will only use my powers for good, not evil :D
Cheers,
Erik


Will do as soon as I can.

Meanwhile.... :oops: :oops: Checking on tech levels I found that the OCR had come adrift and was not calculating properly. Spent the last few hours reading the small print, checking the calcs, checking the calcs again and making corrections. Honestly I have no idea when it was (or if I) messed up.

Corrected shipyard posted (v26).
Paul

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Re: Shipyard Latest

Postby OldnGrey » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:52 am

I will try to have an updated slightly revised shipyard in a day or two for Starmada Iron Stars. I have only just bought a download so i have to work out how best to make any changes.

Paul

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Re: Shipyard Latest

Postby OldnGrey » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:53 pm

Updated to include Iron Stars.
Guide has a page added for the major Iron Stars changes. One change to this is that you can leave the critical damage choice on the Nation page as "Yes". I included a separate Hull chart showing the critical damage "bullets".

Note that on the critical damage chart for Boarding pods there are only cross off O's per flight. As the rules say roll for each remaining boarding pod, please times the flight/s by the number of actual pods in the flight/s.

Carrier on the damage chart reflects the number of flights (less Boarding pod flights) so each loss is either Fighter flight, Seeker flight or Striker flight. If fighters not on board, may only recover if fighter flight capacity remains.

OCR change (TL replacement before calc was putting wrong result, TL has been removed from OCR calcs altogether) will give a different result to the official sxca.

Any questions? As always, ask away.

Paul

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Re: Shipyard Latest

Postby OldnGrey » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:59 pm

I thunked about boarding pods some more, looked at some designs and found that unless the ship is built for assault (or my ants), there probably will not be many boarding pod flights.
I will change the chart to show the number of pods instead of flights.
If you keep a record of all flights on the back of the data card, you could mark off losses there.

Paul
BP1.jpg
Small craft log
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