Making Miniatures

Gettin' the lead and makin' it pretty
thedugan
Admiral
Admiral
Posts: 1660
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:01 am
Location: DFW area - Texas!
Contact:

Postby thedugan » Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:21 pm

nathan wrote:
thedugan wrote:THAT is the information that I needed. A "foot wide cube" is like 7.48 gallons IIRC....that's a BUTTLOAD of resin, and answers my cost question. Unless the diestones are totally unsuitable for the model in question, I'm thinking that they are much cheaper for the given volume, given what you and Jim have said.


I just want to say that I wasn't being in any way accurate with that foot cube comment. For all I remember, it could have been 9 or 10 inches (though I think it was bigger). That makes quite a big difference once you're working out volume. I'd ask for the dimensions/volume and mix ratios from any seller. Find out exactly how much you're getting in true casting volume.


If it's 6 inches on a side, then it's a bit less then a gallon. A gallon is four times as much as the resin retail. Three quarts is about 39$ - about what I'm paying for 50 pounds of Excalibur sans shipping.

No worries, If it's as big as what you're thinking, then it's WAY better.

It's just a hassle to order and ship it...

As for mix ratios, one reason I picked Excalibur was that it mixes more like plaster does. Only production will tell the tale as to whether or not it will work out volume-wise.


nathan wrote:One of the problems with filling a slush/roto-cast resin piece with plaster is that plaster expands. While not lots, you could get a crack in the resin shell from the pressure. I know time is of the essence for many hobby pursuits, but I'd probably pour the inside of the resin shell in two stages, letting the plaster cure at least part way between the two. My current thinking is to simply fill them with an expanding polyurethane foam or a plaster/die stone with lots of filler to keep the weight down.

And yes, you can slush/roto-cast with die stone and plasters. It just takes a bit of patience. Die stone that sets rapidly is obviously better than plasters that usually take longer. I don't think it would work very well by hand. You'd probably need to build some crazy roto-casting contraption. Or be willing to sit there watching TV rotating a small mould by hand for half an hour. If you get a die stone that is made for quick setting, you could probably get that down to 10 minutes.


You could fill with darn near anything, just mind the resin's brittle nature.

I've actually seen some "crazy roto-casting contraptions" - I'll leave that for later. :)


nathan wrote:
thedugan wrote:Did you do the Hirst Arts thing? Most of the links that folks been putting up are familiar, I've been there before.


Yeah, I did some hirst arts blocks. Took an awful lot of work/time unless you had multiple moulds or made moulds of blocks you wanted in higher quantities. I always thought the Linka approach was better, where you cast wall pieces rather than individual blocks. But that's the wrong scale for me, so I'll have to make my own wall moulds for 10mm/N-Scale buildings.


Done a lot of this? You seem to know a bit about molding....
Becuz I'm da friggin' ART FAIRY - dats why!

Big Bang = Let there be LIGHT!

nathan
Midshipman
Midshipman
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:53 pm

Postby nathan » Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:32 pm

No, I've just worked in a lot of fabrication related jobs. Etching glass, reproducing architectural features (like antique plaster trim on Victorian era houses) and stuff like that. I've also done a lot of pottery, including slush casting with slip clay. About 5 or 6 years ago, I also was involved in a start up company to sell wargames terrain online but we lost our first round of finished product in a shipping accident and neither myself nor my business partner had the money at the time to start again (refunding preorders sucks). As well, since then the USD has really dropped and shipping costs from Canada to the US have doubled, so I don't feel so bad about that anymore-- we couldn't operate in today's environment as the US was our target market. I'm also an information sponge kind of a thinker, so things like the fact that resin shrinks but plaster expands stick with me. :shock:

thedugan
Admiral
Admiral
Posts: 1660
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:01 am
Location: DFW area - Texas!
Contact:

Postby thedugan » Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:54 pm

Ahh.. you're a dabbler and pedant like me....
:D

My Excaliber is on the way....
Becuz I'm da friggin' ART FAIRY - dats why!

Big Bang = Let there be LIGHT!

thedugan
Admiral
Admiral
Posts: 1660
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:01 am
Location: DFW area - Texas!
Contact:

Postby thedugan » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:32 am

My Excaliber arrived today!

Frankly, it's not real exciting to look at - it's just an enormous clear plastic bag of light gray powder at this point. It's about half a cubic foot - volume wise - for 50 pounds.

I'll use my crappy kitty litter mold tomorrow (if it doesn't rain) and see how hard it is and just how much volume it looses when mixed.

If it rains, I'll cobble up a starship model to make a mold of.
Becuz I'm da friggin' ART FAIRY - dats why!

Big Bang = Let there be LIGHT!

nathan
Midshipman
Midshipman
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:53 pm

Postby nathan » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:00 pm

thedugan wrote:Ahh.. you're a dabbler and pedant like me....


Exactly.

thedugan
Admiral
Admiral
Posts: 1660
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:01 am
Location: DFW area - Texas!
Contact:

Postby thedugan » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:54 pm

Well, the models are at home, and they hadn't dried enough to throw, but I de-molded them after about 30-40 minutes. I mixed WAY too much, so I dumped it into a old meat container I had purloined for just this purpose. The WASTE from the process seemed to be as much a pint of resin would fill.

If the plaster is good enough for most models, then it's WAY more cost-effective - despite my previous reservations. Not to mention less mess and no noxious-ness....
Becuz I'm da friggin' ART FAIRY - dats why!

Big Bang = Let there be LIGHT!

jimbeau
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral
Posts: 960
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:56 pm

Postby jimbeau » Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:08 am

the rock I cast takes a little less than 1/6th cup of materials total with waste.

nathan
Midshipman
Midshipman
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:53 pm

Postby nathan » Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:22 am

I think even with slush/rotational casting with the resin, the excaliber will probably be quite a bargain. Add in the longer mould life and the lack of noxious organic solvents and you may find yourself looking at resin as being the situational thing you'll grab only for certain models and mould types.

I'm contemplating getting some dental stone specifically made for rotational/slush casting. Stuff that sets up quickly. The dental supply place that's relatively local to me said they had some. They said they have customers who are artists who buy the stuff to do hand rotational casting where the person turns the mould around by hand. I love the sound of cheap, mostly hollow, strong gypsum casts at a low cost. They also said that it'll work as a regular (albeit quick setting) casting stone.

I'm hoping I can get dental stone to work in a two part mould. I've never tried it. I've only ever done a single sided cast with the stuff.

thedugan
Admiral
Admiral
Posts: 1660
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:01 am
Location: DFW area - Texas!
Contact:

Postby thedugan » Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:59 am

If I can do what I'd like to do, I'll be doing a few two part molds.
Becuz I'm da friggin' ART FAIRY - dats why!

Big Bang = Let there be LIGHT!

thedugan
Admiral
Admiral
Posts: 1660
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:01 am
Location: DFW area - Texas!
Contact:

Postby thedugan » Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:31 am

jimbeau wrote:the rock I cast takes a little less than 1/6th cup of materials total with waste.


Well, I just put some water in a throwaway cup (less than 1/2 cup) and put in as much plaster as it looked like it would hold.

Hirst Arts basically said mix this like you would plaster, the ratio wasn't critical.

Next time, I'll use less water to start out with. :)
Becuz I'm da friggin' ART FAIRY - dats why!

Big Bang = Let there be LIGHT!


Return to “Miniatures”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest