New edition of Starmada coming in January!

The Universal Game of Starship Combat
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Re: New edition of Starmada coming in January!

Postby underling » Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:42 pm

Blacklancer99 wrote:Thank goodness for that! I noticed that and I have to admit that I kind of "ugh" moment thinking that fighters were no longer going to be independent, but rather treated as just another weapon system. I'm back to really looking forward to the Shiny New Version :D
Heh, you'll be thinking "ugh" when you're trying to maneuver 10+ ships, and 10+ fighter flights around the board, alternating movement one at a time. Using the Seeker trait is simply the way that we in our group agreed upon to simulate and streamline fighters.
Blacklancer99 wrote:I haven't seen anything other than what has been posted here, but I am particularly interested in the addition of an EW component with the inclusion of ECM as a defense "layer". I think this will greatly enhance certain setting conversions in which Electronic Warfare is a major component of the combat system, which was difficult to model in S:AE.

Defensive capability is now handled in one of three ways: Armor, ECM, and Shields.
Armor is simply additional hull hits, which increase the number of hits a ship can take before it must take damage checks.
The ECM rating is simply a negative modifier to the firing ship, which reduces the number of dice on a given attack roll.
The shield rating is a saving throw against hits that are suffered.

In my opinion, one of the best things about the new system is the quickness of combat resolution. If the target ship has no shields, each attack roll is resolved on ONE die roll.
Everyone has their own opinions on what makes a rules set good, and one of mine is quick combat resolution. I don't mind rolling buckets of dice, IF IT'S QUICK. :)
And this is.

Another is the movement system. It's extremely easy to understand and use.
It gives a great nod to momentum, without having to plot movement. The only thing that is tracked is current speed.

Now that being said, it's been a little frustrating for us trying to design ships that rely solely on speed and maneuvering for defense, similar to the Eldar in Battlefleet Gothic. We've found that once the thrust gets up around six or so, going much beyond that will be really somewhat of a "diminishing return of investment."
But it's also my understanding that's the way the game is now, so this isn't any new limitation or change from the current system.

I've been following the system for about ten years now, and this is the first edition that I've actually really enjoyed playing, and have started designing ships for.
I'm kinda partial to the dice column mechanic, though. ;)
Kevin

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Re: New edition of Starmada coming in January!

Postby madpax » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:40 pm

underling wrote:Armor is simply additional hull hits, which increase the number of hits a ship can take before it must take damage checks.

Is armor plating treated so (in the same way as in SFO, thus?)?

The ECM rating is simply a negative modifier to the firing ship, which reduces the number of dice on a given attack roll.

Different but similar to countermeasures. Unless CM still exist?
The shield rating is a saving throw against hits that are suffered.

That didn't change.

Everyone has their own opinions on what makes a rules set good, and one of mine is quick combat resolution. I don't mind rolling buckets of dice, IF IT'S QUICK. :)

In fact, rolling buckets of dice if very satisfying on an emotional POV... Not so if you end up with a major failure :D
But it makes for simple fire resolution.

It gives a great nod to momentum, without having to plot movement. The only thing that is tracked is current speed.
SNIP
We've found that once the thrust gets up around six or so, going much beyond that will be really somewhat of a "diminishing return of investment."

I'd like to say that in my games, whenever a ship is moving more than its engine rating, you can be sure it will suffer a lot of engine damage (say Murphy?), and end its next move outside the map. :D
Almost the same result if the ship moves up to its speed.
In fact, I feel it would be enough to note if the speed is either within the engine rating or above. And above means usually less than double as it is usually enough to cross vast distance on the table and then you need to maneuver as soon as possible. To note the exact speed is, AFAIK, not really useful in game terms.

I'm kinda partial to the dice column mechanic, though. ;)

I wonder which weapon traits have been removed or modified, if any?

Marc

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Re: New edition of Starmada coming in January!

Postby underling » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:04 am

madpax wrote:In fact, I feel it would be enough to note if the speed is either within the engine rating or above. And above means usually less than double as it is usually enough to cross vast distance on the table and then you need to maneuver as soon as possible. To note the exact speed is, AFAIK, not really useful in game terms.
Marc

What I was meaning is that we haven't found it useful to design ships with a thrust rating of much above six or seven, if any. It is entirely within the scope of the rules to accelerate and have a speed well above a ship's thrust rating. A ship may not perform any turns, however, as long as its current speed rating is above the ship's thrust rating.
Kevin

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Re: New edition of Starmada coming in January!

Postby Nomad » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:40 am

underling wrote:Now that being said, it's been a little frustrating for us trying to design ships that rely solely on speed and maneuvering for defense, similar to the Eldar in Battlefleet Gothic. We've found that once the thrust gets up around six or so, going much beyond that will be really somewhat of a "diminishing return of investment."
But it's also my understanding that's the way the game is now, so this isn't any new limitation or change from the current system.


To be fair, alternating / non-plotted movement as 'core' introduces the possibility of a double-move trait (kinda like Grumm pivots, except for a second move), much like the Eldar have in BFG. Expensive? Certainly. But it's now a lot more viable than it was under pre-plotted. I was also thinking that high ECM scores might more-or-less simulate the holofields in a better way than CM + Stealth did. I found that my Eldar conversions in AE got shafted royally until I started putting Cloaking on them, and then they became a viable fleet.

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Re: New edition of Starmada coming in January!

Postby underling » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:04 am

Nomad wrote:
underling wrote:Now that being said, it's been a little frustrating for us trying to design ships that rely solely on speed and maneuvering for defense, similar to the Eldar in Battlefleet Gothic. We've found that once the thrust gets up around six or so, going much beyond that will be really somewhat of a "diminishing return of investment."
But it's also my understanding that's the way the game is now, so this isn't any new limitation or change from the current system.

To be fair, alternating / non-plotted movement as 'core' introduces the possibility of a double-move trait (kinda like Grumm pivots, except for a second move), much like the Eldar have in BFG. Expensive? Certainly. But it's now a lot more viable than it was under pre-plotted. I was also thinking that high ECM scores might more-or-less simulate the holofields in a better way than CM + Stealth did. I found that my Eldar conversions in AE got shafted royally until I started putting Cloaking on them, and then they became a viable fleet.

We've suggested several things, but so far, we can't seem to get the designer to bite on anything. :D

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Re: New edition of Starmada coming in January!

Postby terryoc » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:27 pm

The SFU does have electronic warfare (ECM). Star Fleet Battles has extensive ECM rules. Federation Commander does not. I would not expect Star Fleet Armada to have "official" electronic warfare rules. The lack of power allocation in Starmada makes it difficult to model, because when you use ECM in SFB you have to give up something else, either movement or weapons fire, or less of any of the bajillion other things you need power to do. I think the proposed system models the Star Fleet Universe pretty well. Armour in the new system works pretty much the same way as shields do in SFB/FC/ACTA.

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Re: New edition of Starmada coming in January!

Postby falstaffe » Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:22 pm

Wowzers! Been away from starship combat for a while, and this might just draw me back in. Like the direction of the new edition. Suprised Dan was willing to change the core multi-dice roll mechanic, buuuut I think "short n sweet" is the way to go. Simplifying movement is a BIG bonus. Love that the samples include a graphic of the ship (never underestimate the power of this.) Looks like it could easily be done on laminated cards (Starmada the CCG?)

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Re: New edition of Starmada coming in January!

Postby madpax » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:16 pm

underling wrote:What I was meaning is that we haven't found it useful to design ships with a thrust rating of much above six or seven, if any. It is entirely within the scope of the rules to accelerate and have a speed well above a ship's thrust rating. A ship may not perform any turns, however, as long as its current speed rating is above the ship's thrust rating.
Kevin

I'm aware of all that. What I was meaning is that usually, you avoid moving the ship at a speed above your engine rating, and if ever you do that, you never move at more than the double of your engine value. At least, that was what I did during my game. Better, I usually ended moving my ship at one or two point of engine less to take into account the possibility of engine damage and still be able to maneuver. So, I feel that usually, you can indicate that either you are moving up to your engin value, or up to twice (as in SFO).
No need to record the exact speed, you just have to chose each turn which speed you use (normal or fast i.e. more than your engine value).

Marc

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Re: New edition of Starmada coming in January!

Postby mj12games » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:17 pm

madpax wrote:No need to record the exact speed, you just have to chose each turn which speed you use (normal or fast i.e. more than your engine value).

In most cases, yes. However... If my thrust rating is reduced to 5 due to damage, it matters very much if my speed is 5 or 6.
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Re: New edition of Starmada coming in January!

Postby madpax » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:20 pm

Of course, you are right, but I was talking for simplicity sake. Of course, you could simply place a die or a marker to indicate the current speed.

Marc


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