New points system for your perusal

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jimbeau
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Postby jimbeau » Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:44 pm

that would be very cool.

Zerloon
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Postby Zerloon » Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:22 pm

Ok, now I understand (maybe :lol: ).

I'm sorry but I totally disagree, with this method Commanding units have different cost depending of number of units, a real pain in the... well you know were I mean.

Maybe you can devise a hero level, so hero level 1 (captain) can have only 1 dice of command and muster up to X units (5?), hero level 2 (sub general?) can have 2 dice of command and muster X hero level 1 (2?) and so on...

Or maybe not, but please keeo thing simple, isn't possible recalculate point cost for every battle :shock:

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Postby underling » Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:35 am

Zerloon wrote:I'm sorry but I totally disagree, with this method Commanding units have different cost depending of number of units, a real pain in the... well you know were I mean.
Or maybe not, but please keeo thing simple, isn't possible recalculate point cost for every battle :shock:

I agree.
I'm not sure why the cost for a command die should be tied to the size of a force. But I haven't spent very much time with this point cost system either.
Kevin

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Postby jimbeau » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:07 am

Zerloon:

I thought it was simple. kind of a simplified method of the defiance formula.

Kevin:
The cost of the commanders is related to the size of the force because the effectiveness of a force is dependent on the quality of the commanders.

Anyway, that's where I'm headed.

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Postby underling » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:43 am

jimbeau wrote:Kevin:
The cost of the commanders is related to the size of the force because the effectiveness of a force is dependent on the quality of the commanders.

Part of the statement above is true.
The effectiveness of a force is dependent on the quality of its commanders.
However, the quality of a commander doesn't increase simply because the size of a force it's commanding increases.
That's faulty logic.
The quality of a commander is shown in reality by one value; the number of command points it can generate. That quality doesn't increase just because the point cost of an army increases from 2000 to 4000. A commander with a d6 for command is going to generate from 1 to 6 command points per turn whether it's in a force of 2000 or a force of 4000. The only difference in those two forces as far as a commander is concerned is that there are more units to spend the command points on.
Assuming, that is, that you don't have units in the larger force that costs more than the units in the smaller force.
But I don't see that as making the commander in the larger force more valuable.
I guess the beauty of point cost systems is that they are subjective to some degree though. So you can do whatever you want.
:)
Kevin

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Postby jimbeau » Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:52 am

The effectiveness of a force is dependent on the quality of its commanders.
However, the quality of a commander doesn't increase simply because the size of a force it's commanding increases.
That's faulty logic.


I actually said the effectiveness of a force is dependent on the quality of the commanders, a subtle but important difference. However, you are correct in that the size of the force has no effect on the quality of the commander. I just want the importance of command to be identified as such and mirrored in the points.

But I'm willing to listen to any suggestions at all.

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Postby Zerloon » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:09 am

Here my suggestions:

1) Limit command guy.

Hero level Commander = command dice (d4-d6-d8-2d4)
Max 1 every X(3?) units.

Great Hero level Commander = command dice (d10-d12-2d6-2d8)
Max 1 every X(2?) Hero level commander.

Uber Hero Commander = command dice (2d10-2d12)
Max 1 every X(2?) Great hero commander.

In this manner you shuold not change point every time, but you have the right commander depending of the size of battle.


2) Reducing command guy

If every unit can doing one order without spending CP there is less need of commander. Maybe keep the cap of 2d12 is too. In our battles two commander with 2d6 can move a lot of people, and is'nt costly. I suggest to keep command dice at 1 dice, and fix a limit of command character (1 for every 1000 point?)

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Postby jimbeau » Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:17 am

1) Too restrictive, imo.

2) Each unit may now take one command without spending CP from any commander. See my quote from an earlier post.

Still, I want command to make a difference. And I want command to affect the whole force.

Hmm. how to do that.

how much more effective is a force with a d10 commander than with a d8 commander?


I suggest to keep command dice at 1 dice, and fix a limit of command character (1 for every 1000 point?)

Aren't you effectively making a commander worth a percentage of the force at this point?

if you say commanders are 1 per 1000 points, then you're saying the commander is worth x/1000 of the force.

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Postby Zerloon » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:29 pm

how much more effective is a force with a d10 commander than with a d8 commander?


Not many, but there is no need of an huge difference. IMHO.

Aren't you effectively making a commander worth a percentage of the force at this point?


Yes and No :P.

The pratical problem is that Commander should have a cost that reflect theyre abilities, no matter how many units they goes to command. This is to avoid unnecessary complications when you choose you're force. So, giving a cost and saying there can be one every 1000 points can solve the problem, in an abstract way I agree, but if works...

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Postby underling » Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:12 pm

I put together an Excel spreadsheet that shows relative commander worth with respect to command dice. This would probably be my starting point for determining commander effectiveness and point cost.
Kevin


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